Curse

Rites · Jan 24, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

these are their builds, so far my heroes with these build have allowed me to play my para through first half of Nightfalls (just finished all missions/quests for sanctuary) in NM, and i have been able to vanquish starter island of factions as well as a few areas in beginning prophesies and eotn. my toon is 2nd rank survivor with this combo, and hopefully i can keep going to 3rd rank using this team setup.

BUT, I noticed that the setups aren't perfect and would like some input. BEFORE all the spamming there are a few guidelines:

1. I will NOT use any EOTN PvE skills, just personal policy
2. This is the team, I am not switching out any heroes for another, the idea is to make the team better, not play using the same teams everyone else plays
3. the henchies i use when allowable are earth henchie, healer, and 2 physical damage
4. I H/H through PvE, though I haven't yet started the "Elite" dungeons, which might change my setups anyway

allow the criticism to begin

Notes:
R/Rit SoS - more durable in HM than primary Rit

another note:
i chose Jin out of the 3 ranger heroes cuz her AI seems to be the more cautious one, i always find her in the safest area compared to Pyre and Magrid, thus i usually end up having my toon right beside her in battles

I chose Hayda because her arrogant remarks always puts a smile on my face

As for Gwen, lets face it, the other mesmer you get just seems gay (no offense to anyone)

why limit the heroes i wanna use? because creating a perfect synergy with limited options is (in my opinion) more of a challenge than unlocking all the heroes so you can run the same old bars everyone else has

Haggis of Doom · Jan 25, 2011, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

2. This is the team, I am not switching out any heroes for another, the idea is to make the team better, not play using the same teams everyone else plays

Why this rule? Is it for roleplaying?

Not saying it's wrong, but it severely limits your options. While running the same bars as a lot of people is indeed boring, there are very valid advantages to those specific bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

3. the henchies i use when allowable are earth henchie, healer, and 2 physical damage

Hope the physicals aren't melee, at least til the AI is fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

R/Rit SoS - more durable in HM than primary Rit

A primary Rit runs the bar much better. Higher damage, more durable spirits, better secondary choices (though resto stuff fit well on that bar so most people don't even bother with the secondary), and Splinter breakpoint @14.

As for some light criticism without going too much into the build concepts (especially R/Rt

):

- Splinter is missing. You're running 4 physicals AND already specing into Channeling so there's no reason for this.
- Motivation is in bad shape. Para stuff gets better when there are multiple paras. A Moti bar is questionable even when there are 2 more paras in the team.
- Protective Spirit is missing. Don't go anywhere HM without this, unless you have a human ST rit who knows what (s)he's doing.
- Hunter's Shot should be removed, as should be Troll Unguent.
- 3 hard rezes are overkill for H/H. I personally bring none, but you could bring 1 if that makes you uncomfortable.

Rites · Jan 25, 2011, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Why this rule? Is it for roleplaying?

Not saying it's wrong, but it severely limits your options. While running the same bars as a lot of people is indeed boring, there are very valid advantages to those specific bars.

I guess you could say it for roleplay. I prefer not to use combos that everyone else is using.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Hope the physicals aren't melee, at least til the AI is fixed.

I personally have not had any major issues with the "buggy" AI on physical henchies. It might be because of my playstyle or just cuz I ain't paying as much attention, but I have no probs running melee henchies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

A primary Rit runs the bar much better. Higher damage, more durable spirits, better secondary choices (though resto stuff fit well on that bar so most people don't even bother with the secondary), and Splinter breakpoint @14.

Yes I know primary rits would run it better, but ranger with the same HP as my rit is more durable

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

As for some light criticism without going too much into the build concepts (especially R/Rt

):

- Splinter is missing. You're running 4 physicals AND already specing into Channeling so there's no reason for this.
- Motivation is in bad shape. Para stuff gets better when there are multiple paras. A Moti bar is questionable even when there are 2 more paras in the team.
- Protective Spirit is missing. Don't go anywhere HM without this, unless you have a human ST rit who knows what (s)he's doing.
- Hunter's Shot should be removed, as should be Troll Unguent.
- 3 hard rezes are overkill for H/H. I personally bring none, but you could bring 1 if that makes you uncomfortable.

-Splinter= yes, I was looking into adding this
-Moti bar= as i have said earlier these bars have gotten me through many areas unscathed, but I have looked into the possibility of changing to a Command para. So far though, the moti bar has been quite helpful, was just looking for possibility of tweaking
-Protective spirit= Never really used monks in HM as /rit regen bars have usually done well. But I will look into possibly changing one of the bars and seeing how this helps
-Hunter and Troll= take off hunter for splinter, will see what to put in for troll
- Hard rez= never really tried a hero bar without rezzes, but considering henchies always have rezzes I guess it isn't a bad idea

shanx for input

Boogz · Jan 25, 2011, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Tbh I think your jin is being a waste; its better to give her a ranger elite: incendiary arrows, magebane shot, barrage, etc. Since you're a para, I'd say run her as R/P spearchucker for fun's sake. Gwen could use channeling instead of restoration, giving you, Jin and Hayda some weapon spells: splinter, nightmare, warmonger's, wailling.

Another combo I have in mind is by abusing conditions; using gwen with fevered dreams/extend conditions, bring yourself and for your heroes (assuming jin is spearchucker or any condition-spamming role) could be really fun, at least its worth a try. Using her fast casting and going secondary necromancer is also an option, bringing with her mark of pain/barbs/weaken armor

I won't say much about your bar since paragons are out of my area of expertise, but I think if Jin was a R/P spearchucker with cruel spear/stunning strike you'd have amazing results with your anthem of fury

Luminarus · Jan 25, 2011, 01:31 AM // 01:31

So you wanna run 2 paras, ranger and mesmer...

Rangers build I would go with a better SoS bar:
SoS, Bloodsong, Splinter Weapon, Ancestors Rage, Spirit Siphon, D-Shot, Flesh of my Flesh, [Optional], probably destruction, or painful bond there. If looking to spec more into resto, could go with Life/Rejuvenation/PwK. Reason for this is crossfire and hunters shot really dont do that much for a team, auto attacking with a bow in NM or HM is pointless, and having to devote attributes and 3/8ths of ur bar to that is furthermore pointless (note d-shot works as good at 0 marks as at 16 marks).

Hayda... well, im gonna be honest. Im not a fan of para healers, even with decent party support. It probably works, but ur better off replacing this hero. Since u dont wanna do that, leave as is.

Gwen:... now im a big fan of PI over Panic, but I know people like panic and it is definately a great skill, so not suggesting a change of that elite. However, since ur once again requiring the para hero, I wont suggest swapping it out.

Finally, ur own bar. Anthem of Fury is a subpar elite. If your looking for more adrenaline FA is the solution. Fury (if memory serves) gives u 3 or 4 adrenaline, every 10 seconds. It also forces u to stop attacking for 1 second, costing u 1 adrenaline (so thats only 2-3 adrenaline gained), as well as damage. On top of that ur party doesnt really benefit too much from adrenaline. Hayda only has 2 adrenaline skills, 1 of which isnt worth using until target is below 50%. Therefore I would suggest a reword of your entire bar tbh.

Spear of Fury, TNTF, SY, Soldiers Fury, CTT, Blazing Spear, If you really want fall back and anthem of weakness that use them, but would really go with some more offensive spear attacks as well, although FB is nice for moving around in vanqs.
EDIT: Regardless of whether u wanna use soldiers fury or not, an IAS is definately required if ur actually looking to do damage as a physical attacker.

Daesu · Jan 25, 2011, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I know you don't like to change your heroes, but I would prefer to bring another paragon hero over your ranger because a paragon synergizes much better with other paragons. You can have the paragon hero bring SoS and Splinter if you like. Alternatively, if you prefer to go with level 14 channeling, bring a Rt/P instead.

If you are bringing paragons and spirits, you dont really need a panic mesmer because you can always bring anthem of disruption and anthem of envy or maybe even anthem of weakness. I would also bring IAS on my paragons.

Make sure to bring Protective Spirit if you are playing in HM.

Rites · Jan 25, 2011, 03:06 AM // 03:06

ok, so far what i have gathered:

my bar needs some reworking, apparently i really didn't think my adrenal skills through. on this i cannot argue, which is why i was asking for outside opinions (so we could see what my ignorance is missing

)

protective spirit somewhere ( still analyzing who this will end up going to, need to rework a few bars it seems)

R/Rit either focus more on ranger or more on SoS (probably be the latter, though i will play around a bit to see what works best for me) and add splinter (duh, i cant believe i didnt do this before)

as for adding another paragon..... thought about it, but i seriously doubt i'll do it. the idea was to not repeat what others are/have done and definitely don't want my ranger and my paragon toons to have the same entourage

mes... i only recently started using a mes (or any casters really) heros and a panic bar was only bar i had in my templates list, but i would be more than happy to try other mes bars

pengman16 · Jan 25, 2011, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Soooo... if you aren't ever going to change your hero setup/combination... what are you going to do for Grand Court of Sebelkeh, Ruins of Morah, Dzagonur Bastion, Rilohn Refuge, Jokanur Diggings, Blacktide Den, Dasha Vestibule, Moddok Crevice, and... dare I mention it... Chahbek Village! O_O (etc etc etc)

Maver1ck87 · Jan 25, 2011, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by pengman16

Soooo... if you aren't ever going to change your hero setup/combination... what are you going to do for Grand Court of Sebelkeh, Ruins of Morah, Dzagonur Bastion, Rilohn Refuge, Jokanur Diggings, Blacktide Den, Dasha Vestibule, Moddok Crevice, and... dare I mention it... Chahbek Village! O_O (etc etc etc)

ZOMG THOSE ARE LIKE IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT DISCORDWAY! WAHHHHHHHH! maybe OP will just man up and do them... seriously, have all the real men left this game?

Although, I kinda admit it is a strange principle, imo, part of the fun of having 20 odd heroes is being able to mix and match and run new and exciting team builds. Furthermore, it is silly to get fixated on 1 team build as skills change etc....

ANYWAYS.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

I guess you could say it for roleplay. I prefer not to use combos that everyone else is using.

SY para,

+ 1 hero para

SoS

Panic mesmer

never seen a combo like that before.....

ANYWAYS.....

if u wanna make a team build, may i suggest u start at the basics.... what are you aiming to achieve.....

lets look at some examples:

Discordway:
Single target spike team centred on caller and Discord

Sabway:
PRESSURE w/ hexes and conditons, abusing SR, minion defense

Spiritway:
Pressure using spirit wall and defense via Panic

Sabway:
Physical spike + uber high AR defense

your team at the moment, or as u posted it was kinda nothing.... a bit of single target dmg, a bit of pressure kinda all thrown together.....

think if u wanna go pressure or single target dmg....
personally, i lean towards pressure....

for something different...... maybe try.....

Player - P/W --> stunning spear w/ SY etc.... barbed spear etc...

R/P - IA ranger w/ apply poison + a couple of useful shouts

P/W - Commandogon i.e. Fall back, Stand your group etc... + Stunning spear as elite, blazing spear etc....

Me/Rt - Fragility, fevered dreams, P drain, Leech + /rt skills

Should chuck out some nice aoe pressure, and not run very commonly.... but then again.... i suggested this.... and you dont wanna use other peoples combos so....... STAY AWAY --> its my precious, its MY BUILD RARRGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Na, use it, i havent run it, just theorycrafting, u can even name it after you, Ritesway... sounds better than Maver1ck87way!

NerfHerder · Jan 25, 2011, 09:15 AM // 09:15

I wouldnt use those heros in the fashion your using. But, I accept your challenge to use only those three heros.

Acolyte Jin

She will most likely use splinter everytime its recharged on either you, hayda, or herself. So I added Siphon Spirit to help with the energy loss. Volly for a barrage effect. The other markmanship skills are optional. But, I wouldnt use anything over 5 energy or fast recharge. Keen Arrow might work with 1 or 2 copies of GftE.

Gwen

PI and WnWn give you a net energy gain of 1. The reduced recharge of your mesmer skills and PD should give you enough energy to power your resto skills. I dont care what wiki says, a Panic/Resto is an energy hog.

Hayda

Just a command Para. A Motigon might be just as effective. Just another alternative. Regardless, you should bring an IAS.

With you as close to an Imba as you can get, maybe Soldiers Fury instead of AoF. That might be enough protection to not need PS. Let the hero take AoW so you can put in another spear skill.

I have used the PI/Resto and Commandagon successfully in different team builds. The Ranger build is more of a wild guess. Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

MisterB · Jan 25, 2011, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maver1ck87

ZOMG THOSE ARE LIKE IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT DISCORDWAY! WAHHHHHHHH! maybe OP will just man up and do them... seriously, have all the real men left this game?

All of the missions in the post you quoted require a specific hero that the OP has not included in order to begin the mission.

edit: +1

Dzjudz · Jan 25, 2011, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maver1ck87

ZOMG THOSE ARE LIKE IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT DISCORDWAY! WAHHHHHHHH! maybe OP will just man up and do them... seriously, have all the real men left this game?

What he meant is that those missions are impossible with that hero team, because they each require a specific hero to enter the mission.

Edit: arf, ninja'd on a reply to a 3.5 hour old post...

Maver1ck87 · Jan 25, 2011, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

All of the missions in the post you quoted require a specific hero that the OP has not included in order to begin the mission.

edit: +1

Hence why I shouldn't ever be made to work before 9am -> brain does not function :P

Rites · Jan 25, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

common sense dictates that yes of course i will swap out a hero if needed for a quest, basically i am just planning to use these 3 as my mainstays for my para toon

@maverick- only have 1 goal on any build, thats survivability
@nerfherder- testing builds, so far seems pretty good, shanx

After a lil testing using nerfherder's input:

Jin targets herself mainly with splinter (considering she is the only physical AoE, I don't mind)

Changed my build to: GftE, TNtF, AoF (will change to spear of fury by end of the day, out of faction points), AoW, Soldier's fury, wild throw, barbed spear, SY

seems to synergize a lil better than before, though i have to admit i miss FB for the run speed and that extra healing between mobs. otherwise better than what i had
(last build raptors and angoradons put a scare on me, but with this combo they are kinda meh

)

thanx all for inputs, and i will be testing other ideas as i see them here

Rites · Jan 25, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

This is what I ended up with so far

many shanx for all the input, and any additional input is more than welcome

Haggis of Doom · Jan 25, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Rez on a player bar is almost always a waste. I personally would sub one of the spear attacks for Spear of Fury and sub the signet for 'Fall Back!' (another copy on Hayda as well). I also personally would not put GftE on an Imba bar. You are already taking the risk of not bringing PS nor Shelter, so choosing some minor extra damage over 'SY!' uptime would probably not be worth it (the SF version is already inferior to the FA version for this purpose).

Determined shot is a weak choice; FW is nice but has too long a cast time. I would swap them for Ancestor's Rage and either Savage Shot or a rez.

Gwen's bar is still weird imo. Soothing Memories has the same usage as Spirit Light, you really don't need 3(-ish) spot heals on one bar. A more popular version has Tease instead of PI, but apparently the AI use of it is just as horrible.

Rites · Jan 26, 2011, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

A more popular version has Tease instead of PI, but apparently the AI use of it is just as horrible.

which is probably why i was told to use PI

as for the rezzes, i am still planning on removing them, just taking precautions because as i have stated before i actually wanna get r3 survivor on this toon (and i don't wanna/ am too poor to do the gimmicks everyone else is using).

i too noticed the timing for FW was a lil too long and was thinking of removing it anyway, since Jin is normally the safest out of the hero bunch, a rez on her would probably be smarter.